{"id":149067,"date":"2019-12-09T12:00:24","date_gmt":"2019-12-09T12:00:24","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/?p=149067"},"modified":"2020-05-03T06:10:42","modified_gmt":"2020-05-03T05:10:42","slug":"interview-with-munchs-the-scream","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/2019\/12\/interview-with-munchs-the-scream\/","title":{"rendered":"Interview with Munch\u2019s \u201cThe Scream\u201d"},"content":{"rendered":"

\u201cIt is your human environment that makes climate.\u201d<\/em>
\n–Mark Twain<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

\"\"<\/a>

The Scream, by Edward Munch, 1893<\/p><\/div>\n

[Interviewer\u2019s note<\/em>:<\/strong> It wasn\u2019t easy to track him down.\u00a0 Using my best contacts in the demimonde<\/em>, I located him in a pied-a-terre<\/em> walk-up in a Paris slum.\u00a0 I was frisked by a bodyguard with an uncanny resemblance to Marlene Dietrich–whisky voice, dangling cigarette and all.\u00a0 (It wasn\u2019t unpleasant!) \u00a0\u201cThe Scream\u201d had his back to me out of respect for my person while \u201cMarlene\u201d frisked.\u00a0 When \u201cDietrich\u201d had finished, she excused herself to keep guard in the hall.<\/p>\n

The Scream turned, his mouth twisted into a rictus of pain, horror and terror.\u00a0 The air in the room seemed to be sucked into that rictus, and I gasped.\u00a0 Then the air turned blood-red.\u00a0 The sensation that ran through me was one of an inexpressible, shuddering hollowness that turned my bones to icicles.\u00a0 The Scream gestured me to one of two wooden chairs; I moved leadenly in a dream, set up the recorder, and the interview began\u2026.]<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/strong>: Perhaps we should begin with\u2026that is\u2026I think most people would want to know what you\u2019ve been doing, where you\u2019ve been, since you were stolen from the Oslo Museum\u2026.<\/p>\n

SCREAM<\/strong>: You mean in 1994?\u00a0 Or, recently?<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/strong>: Well\u2026uh\u2026both\u2026.<\/p>\n

SCREAM<\/strong>: First thing is\u2026I want to set the record straight…. I wasn\u2019t stolen!\u00a0 I wanted out!\u00a0 I wanted out for a long time.\u00a0 You can\u2019t imagine\u2026no \u201ccivilian\u201d can\u2026.\u00a0 What it\u2019s like\u2026 what it\u2019s like\u2026to be gawked at by strangers, day after day, night after night\u2026.\u00a0 Probing with their searching eyes–your very being, your very soul\u2026. \u00a0And all their cruel assumptions!\u00a0 You can\u2019t imagine! I got the word to the Underground, thru my literary and artistic contacts\u2026and they helped me.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/strong>: I want to be sure I\u2019ve got this right.\u2026 \u00a0You\u2019re saying it was an \u201cinside job\u201d?<\/p>\n

SCREAM<\/strong>: \u201cInside,\u201d \u201coutside\u201d\u2014what\u2019s the difference?\u00a0 You put someone like me in a museum, it\u2019s like putting a Bengal tiger in a zoo!\u00a0 People come and gawk, but they have no context, no sense of the larger picture.\u00a0 They leave the museum, and they forget about you.\u00a0 I don\u2019t want people to forget, ever\u2026. \u00a0You got a cigarette?<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/strong>: Sure\u2026.<\/p>\n

SCREAM<\/strong>: (taking a long drag–) I haven\u2019t slept for days.\u2026 \u00a0I\u2019ve been wandering up and down the beaches in Asia, seeing the washed-away lives\u2026.\u00a0 I\u2019m like Rimbaud, you see.\u00a0 What did he say?\u00a0 (I\u2019ve forgotten my French!)\u00a0 Something like, \u201cIt is raining in my heart.\u201d<\/p>\n

Sometimes\u2026people just need me to be with them, to scream beside them, because they\u2019ve used up all their screams.\u2026 \u00a0I\u2019m going back tomorrow.\u2026 \u00a0I came here to help organize relief\u2026. \u00a0There\u2019s too much to be done.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/strong>: The Brits caught you the first time!\u00a0 They brought you back!<\/p>\n

SCREAM<\/strong>: 1994 again, ey?\u00a0 Only out for 3 months then\u2026. They brought me back.\u00a0 It\u2019s better organized now, though.\u00a0 We\u2019ve got a better phony picture up there now.\u00a0 Wonders of modern Tech and all!\u00a0 They haven\u2019t caught on yet.\u00a0 Maybe they never will!<\/p>\n

I\u2019ve traveled, you know\u2026. \u00a0Not just here\u2026but\u2026throughout history\u2026.\u00a0 I was there\u2026. \u00a0When the pilgrims signed the \u201cMayflower Compact\u201d\u2014I was there\u2026. \u00a0In 1066\u2014I was there for the Magna Carta\u2026. \u00a0When Euripides wept for the Trojan Women\u2014I was there\u2026. \u00a0And at Wounded Knee, and in Ford\u2019s Theater, and in Dallas, November 22, 1963\u2014I was there\u2026.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/strong> (tentatively–) But\u2026you couldn\u2019t stop it?\u00a0 None of it.\u00a0 Couldn\u2019t you have\u2014<\/p>\n

SCREAM<\/strong>: What?\u00a0 \u201cOurs not to reason why\/ Ours but to do or die.\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s the general theme, you know.\u00a0 Humanity!\u00a0 Mostly, it\u2019s a sham\u2026.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/strong>: How do you keep going?<\/p>\n

SCREAM<\/strong>: Why do you think I look like this?\u00a0 Why do you think I grieve?<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/strong>: For all of us?<\/p>\n

SCREAM<\/strong>: \u201cIf I am not for myself, who will be for me?\u00a0 If I am only for myself, what am I?\u201d\u00a0 Are you satisfied?\u00a0 For myself\u2026and, for all\u2026.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/strong>: I don\u2019t know how people can live without hope\u2026.<\/p>\n

SCREAM<\/strong>: \u201cHope deferred maketh the heart sick\u2026but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life.\u201d<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/strong>: So it was written\u2026.\u00a0 \u201cProverbs,\u201d wasn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n

SCREAM<\/strong> (leaning forward): But what if the desire never \u201ccometh\u201d?\u00a0 What if the tree withers, the fruit rots on the vine?…<\/p>\n

Do you know that the poor give much more, relatively, than the wealthy?\u00a0 That\u2019s documented\u2026. \u00a0That, too, makes me scream!\u00a0 Not just the suffering, which is overwhelming.\u00a0 Even I had to get away\u2014though I can never really get away.\u00a0 The images haunt me.\u2026 \u00a0But\u2026the sheer stupidity, the complacency, the fatuous complacency.\u2026 \u00a0It doesn\u2019t matter what they say\u2026. \u00a0A lot of people say the right things.\u00a0 A lot of promises, empty rhetoric, whatever.\u00a0 It\u2019s the politicians\u2019 craft, you know.\u00a0 And it infects this modern age!\u00a0 \u201cSocial media\u201d you call it?\u00a0 It\u2019s not very sociable, is it?\u00a0 So much repetition!\u00a0 So many people \u201cscreaming\u201d at one another!\u00a0 (Pardon my pun, by the way!)<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/strong>: A lot of Americans are kind, empathetic, even noble.<\/p>\n

SCREAM<\/strong>:\u00a0 Yes, they are.\u2026 \u00a0And most of them are outside of government \u201cservice\u201d.\u2026 And that\u2019s worth screaming about, isn\u2019t it?\u00a0 A lot of Americans will dig deeply into their pockets\u2014the poor even more than others–and they\u2019ll look beyond race and religion and reach out, person-to-person, because it is the right thing to do.\u00a0 I do not mean \u201cright\u201d in terms of \u201cleft\u201d and \u201cright,\u201d and I don\u2019t mean it in terms of some particular religious doctrine\u2014or lack thereof.\u00a0 I do not mean it in the sense of the \u201chuman\u201d thing to do.\u00a0 [Here, it seemed he gave me an ironic, friendly wink\u2014with one of his goggle-like eyes!]\u00a0 I like to add a final \u201ce\u201d to \u201chuman\u201d!\u00a0 \u201cE\u201d for \u2018exceptional\u2019! \u00a0\u201cE\u201d for \u2018exquisite\u2019!\u00a0 \u201cE\u201d for \u2018exemplary\u2019!… \u00a0It is, then, the humane<\/u> <\/em>thing to do!<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/strong>: Then, there is some hope?…<\/p>\n

SCREAM<\/strong>: All right\u2026.\u00a0 You\u2019ve got it now\u2026.\u00a0 We have to live through hopelessness.\u00a0 See the light!\u00a0 It\u2019s rare, it\u2019s difficult, God knows!<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/strong>: \u201cSay not the struggle naught availeth\u201d?<\/p>\n

SCREAM<\/strong>:\u00a0 It better avail\u2026.\u00a0 Or\u2026what are we?…\u00a0 We\u2019re all entangled, aren\u2019t we?\u00a0 There\u2019s another just like you\u2026somewhere in this Quantum Universe.\u00a0 Spin you, spin another\u2014any which way\u2026and that entangled particle will correspond\u2026.\u00a0 Yes\u2026there always is, it keeps us going.\u00a0 It is a dreadful hope.\u00a0 And\u2026it is the life force.\u00a0 It is the last shred of our humanity in Pandora\u2019s box of phantoms, charms, nightmares, regrets and horrors.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/strong>: And, yet, you scream\u2026.<\/p>\n

SCREAM<\/strong>: I never said it was easy, did I?\u00a0 You remember Conrad\u2019s ending to \u201cHeart of Darkness,\u201d don\u2019t you?<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/strong>: \u201cOh, the horror!\u201d<\/p>\n

SCREAM<\/strong>: Yes\u2026.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/strong>: But\u2026what are we to do?\u00a0 We are few and they are many\u2014those who are content with the status quo<\/em>.\u00a0 Those who do not want to question or challenge\u2014out of complacency, fear, ignorance\u2026.<\/p>\n

SCREAM<\/strong>: Or their own power.\u00a0 Where one stands, depends on where one sits, you know\u2026. \u00a0There are a thousand and one reasons not to foresee\u2026.\u00a0 People get \u201cset\u201d in their ways\u2026. \u00a0What was it Voltaire said?\u00a0 \u201cIt is difficult to free slaves from the chains they revere\u2026.\u201d<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/strong>: It\u2019s a lot to think about\u2026. You\u2019ve given me so much to consider\u2026.<\/p>\n

SCREAM<\/strong>: Only a beginning\u2026. A sketch of possibilities.\u00a0 You must fill in the details\u2026with your life\u2026. \u00a0Do not just \u201cconsider.\u201d\u00a0 \u201cRe<\/em>-consider!\u201d\u00a0 \u201cTest axioms on your pulses!\u201d Keats said.\u00a0 What was true may not be true again.\u00a0 And, what was not true before, may be the best solution now\u2026. \u00a0\u201cThe unexamined life is not worth living.\u201d<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/strong>: That one I know!\u00a0 Socrates!<\/p>\n

SCREAM<\/strong>: The gadfly of Athens\u2026.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/strong>: I understand\u2026I think I understand\u2026why they \u201clocked you up,\u201d put you in a museum!\u00a0 You\u2019re advocating revolution!<\/p>\n

SCREAM<\/strong>: \u201cWhat\u2019s in a name?\u201d Juliet asked.\u00a0 \u201cThat which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.\u2019<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/strong>: Not quite!\u00a0 If we called it a \u201cshit-bar,\u201d no one would want <\/em>to smell it!<\/p>\n

I thought I detected the shadow of a smile here\u2026.<\/em><\/p>\n

SCREAM<\/strong>: Call it whatever you want!\u00a0 A revolution of the heart and mind together–that\u2019s the important thing!<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/strong>: We march, we sign petitions, we vote, we write, we cry out, we talk to our Red State brothers, our Blue State brothers\u2026. \u00a0What else can we do?<\/p>\n

SCREAM<\/strong>: Keep at it!\u00a0 Learn and re-learn!\u00a0 Life is learning.\u00a0 Life is teaching.\u00a0 The best learning and the best teaching are mutual.\u00a0 Hone your dialogues.\u00a0 Elevate your discourses.\u00a0 \u201cAm I my brother\u2019s keeper?\u201d Cain asked.\u00a0 And, of course\u2026he was\u2026.<\/p>\n

Kill your television sets and retire your computers.\u00a0 Look at the world!\u00a0 Do you know what I heard a foreign tourist say in Phuket after the tsunami?.\u2026 \u00a0\u201cIt looked like a movie!\u201d\u00a0 Can you begin to understand how mad that is, how out-of-joint all your judgments and perceptions are?\u00a0 Life doesn\u2019t look like a movie<\/em>!\u00a0 A movie looks like life<\/em>!<\/p>\n

There was a knock on the door.\u00a0 THE SCREAM was busy–so many claims upon his precious time.\u00a0 I thanked him, and he seized my hand in his bony grip, squeezed until it hurt, and he would not let go.\u00a0 He began to wail.\u00a0 It was a keening sound of grief, loss and damnation.\u00a0 And a siren sound, too\u2014ambulances and police cars in it; and the sound of bombs falling was in it, and tsunamis and cyclones.)<\/em><\/p>\n

SCREAM<\/strong>: You tell them! \u00a0Don\u2019t let them forget! \u00a0For the sake of their humanity! \u00a0For the Reality and Meaning and Purpose they worship above money and above self-interest! \u00a0For the sake of the Earth\u2026and for the children.\u2026<\/p>\n

______________________________________________<\/em><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a><\/em>Dr. Gary Corseri is a member of the TRANSCEND Network for Peace Development Environment.<\/a> He <\/em>has published\/posted poems, articles, fiction and dramas at Transcend Media Service<\/a> and hundreds of publications and websites worldwide.\u00a0 He has performed his work at the Carter Presidential Library and his dramas have been produced on PBS-Atlanta.\u00a0 He edited the \u201cManifestations\u201d literary anthology.\u00a0 He has published 2 novels and 2 poetry collections, has taught in US public schools and prisons and in US and Japanese universities. <\/em>Contact: Gary_Corseri@comcast.net<\/a>.<\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

[Interviewer\u2019s note: It wasn\u2019t easy to track him down. Using my best contacts in the demimonde, I located him in a pied-a-terre walk-up in a Paris slum. I was frisked by a bodyguard with an uncanny resemblance to Marlene Dietrich–whisky voice, dangling cigarette and all. (It wasn\u2019t unpleasant!)<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4,"featured_media":149068,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[40],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-149067","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-transcend-members"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/149067","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/4"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=149067"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/149067\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/149068"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=149067"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=149067"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=149067"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}