{"id":315135,"date":"2026-04-20T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2026-04-20T11:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/?p=315135"},"modified":"2026-04-18T06:15:23","modified_gmt":"2026-04-18T05:15:23","slug":"amy-goodman-on-the-medias-access-of-evil","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/2026\/04\/amy-goodman-on-the-medias-access-of-evil\/","title":{"rendered":"Amy Goodman on the Media\u2019s \u201cAccess of Evil\u201d"},"content":{"rendered":"<div id=\"attachment_315136\" style=\"width: 410px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/04\/Amy_Goodman.webp\" ><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-315136\" class=\"wp-image-315136\" src=\"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/04\/Amy_Goodman-1024x512.webp\" alt=\"\" width=\"400\" height=\"200\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/04\/Amy_Goodman-1024x512.webp 1024w, https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/04\/Amy_Goodman-300x150.webp 300w, https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/04\/Amy_Goodman-768x384.webp 768w, https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/04\/Amy_Goodman-1536x768.webp 1536w, https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/04\/Amy_Goodman.webp 2000w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 400px) 100vw, 400px\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-315136\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Amy Goodman &#8211; Democracy NOW! &#8211; The Intercept<\/p><\/div>\n<blockquote><p>14 Apr 2026 &#8211;<em>\u00a0The investigative journalist and \u201cDemocracy Now!\u201d host \u2014 and the subject of a new documentary \u2014 on why independent media is needed now more than ever. <\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\" sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" title=\"Amy Goodman on the Media\u2019s \u201cAccess of Evil\u201d\" src=\"https:\/\/embed.acast.com\/$\/f5b64019-68c3-57d4-b70b-043e63e5cbf6\/69dc3ee379a641a1f3fd954c?#?secret=z4g7UF03Ii\" data-secret=\"z4g7UF03Ii\" frameBorder=\"0\" width=\"700\" height=\"250\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"has-underline\">As talks to<\/span> end the U.S.\u2013Israel war on Iran break down and President Donald Trump demands a naval blockade of the Strait of Hormuz, journalist Amy Goodman says that in times of war and conflicts, \u201cWhat I care about is the answer, and I care that people in this country don\u2019t get health care at the same time that money goes to kill others in another country.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>This week on The Intercept Briefing, Goodman speaks to host Akela Lacy about a new documentary called \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/stealthisstory.org\/\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">Steal This Story, Please!<\/a>\u201d The documentary follows Goodman\u2019s life, journalism career, and the building of the independent news program \u201cDemocracy Now!\u201d which just celebrated its 30th year. Recalling times when networks used their video footage, says Goodman, \u201cI encourage that. Steal this story, please. It\u2019s a failure if it\u2019s an exclusive. We are covering these critical issues of the day, and we want to ensure that these stories get out because independent media is essential to the functioning of a democratic society.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Many journalists and news outlets don\u2019t ask tough questions to maintain what she calls the \u201caccess of evil \u2014 trading truth for access,\u201d and to that, Goodman says, \u201cThen it\u2019s not worth being there at all. It\u2019s our job to hold those in power to account.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>She adds, \u201cWe can\u2019t have weapons manufacturers, who provide millions to networks to advertise determining our coverage of war. We can\u2019t have oil, gas, and coal companies determining our coverage of climate change, or banks and other financial institutions determining how we cover inequality. We need an independent media.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Listen to the full conversation of The Intercept Briefing on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/the-intercept-briefing\/id1195206601\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">Apple Podcasts<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/2js8lwDRiK1TB4rUgiYb24?si=e3ce772344ee4170\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">Spotify<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/playlist?list=PLW0Gy9pTgVnvgbvfd63A9uVpks3-uwudj\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">YouTube<\/a>, or wherever you listen.<\/p>\n<h2 id=\"h-transcript\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript<\/h2>\n<p><strong>Akela Lacy:<\/strong> Welcome to The Intercept Briefing. I\u2019m Akela Lacy, your host, and a senior politics reporter at The Intercept. We\u2019re bringing you a very special episode today. If you know anything about independent media, you\u2019ve likely heard of the famous show \u201cDemocracy Now!\u201d and its intrepid and fearless host Amy Goodman<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Clip from \u201cSteal This Story, Please!\u201d]\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Rush Limbaugh:<\/strong> Radical leftist TV program called \u201cDemocracy Now!\u201d \u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Unknown speaker: <\/strong>I\u2019m not asking again. That way, or you get arrested.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Amy Goodman [montage]: <\/strong>From ground zero \u2026 From East Timor \u2026 As we deplane in Haiti \u2026 From Georgia\u2019s death row prison\u2026 We\u2019re in occupied Western Sahara \u2026 We\u2019ve walked across the border \u2026 We\u2019re in the middle of Trump Tower \u2026 This is \u201cDemocracy Now!,\u201d the war and peace report. I\u2019m Amy Goodman.<\/p>\n<p><strong>AL:<\/strong> \u201cDemocracy Now!\u201d has opened the door for so many independent media outlets doing investigative reporting and asking tough questions, including The Intercept and many other outlets that we admire. Amy Goodman is a journalist who I have incredible respect and admiration for. And today, I had the distinct pleasure of interviewing her about a documentary on her life\u2019s work.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019re also joined by one of the filmmakers of the documentary, which is out now \u2014 \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/stealthisstory.org\/\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">Steal This Story, Please!<\/a>\u201d \u2014 which follows Amy\u2019s life and career in journalism and the building of the independent journalism Goliath that is \u201cDemocracy Now!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Amy Goodman, welcome to The Intercept Briefing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Amy Goodman:<\/strong> Akela, it\u2019s an honor to be here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>AL:<\/strong> Tia Lessin, welcome to the show.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tia Lessin:<\/strong> Thanks so much for having us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>AL:<\/strong> Amy, as someone who has long covered U.S. wars and global conflicts, what do you make of how mainstream media is covering the <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/collections\/targeting-iran\/\" >U.S.\u2013Israel war on Iran<\/a>? Is it any different from how the media covered the 2003 Iraq War, which is something that comes up a lot in the documentary?<\/p>\n<p><strong>AG:<\/strong> Akela, our motto is \u201cGo to where the silence is.\u201d And that\u2019s what the rest of the media, I think, too often misses. When it came to 20 years ago, the U.S. invasion of Iraq, hearing the voices of everyday Iraqis \u2014 almost absent from the mainstream media. And today, as Israel and the United States attack Iran, hearing the voices of people in Iran and the Iranian diaspora.<\/p>\n<p>I am particularly moved by those who stood up against the regime, those who were imprisoned against the regime, those thousands of people. Of course, there are thousands who\u2019ve lost their lives, but those who survived their fierce criticism of what the U.S. and Israel has been doing. It\u2019s really important that we understand history, how the rest of the world sees us.<\/p>\n<p>In the case of Iran, 1953 would mean nothing to most people in the United States. But for the people of Iran, the seminal moment when their leader \u2014 their democratically elected leader, Mohammad Mossadegh \u2014\u00a0was <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/2018\/02\/05\/iran-cia-coup-mossadegh-ayatollah\/\" >overthrown by the U.S. and Britain<\/a> really ultimately for BP at the time, for British Petroleum. That led to this series of events that led to the shah and his secret police known as the SAVAK, which then led to the overthrow and the Iranian revolution in 1979. Many of those who fought the shah would then be imprisoned under the ayatollah.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s people who\u2019ve been fighting for democracy who say bombing their country \u2014 let me quote President Trump \u2014 \u201cto the Stone Ages,\u201d will not further democracy in Iran. That\u2019s what we so often don\u2019t hear is the Iranian people.<\/p>\n<p><strong>AL:<\/strong> Recently, when we saw all this <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/2026\/04\/06\/iran-fighter-jet-rescue-media-coverage\/\" >coverage of the U.S. rescue mission of this downed airman<\/a>, as this incredible feat that took the brawn and the American ethos of war fighting. That was a quote that I heard from a mainstream analyst about this event that had wall-to-wall coverage on the networks \u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>AG:<\/strong> Let me say something Akela.<\/p>\n<p><strong>AL: <\/strong>Go ahead, please.<\/p>\n<p><strong>AG: <\/strong>When you talk about the airmen, the lives of these service members matter \u2014 of every one of them \u2014 as do the lives of civilians here in this country in Israel and Iran. It is critical that we understand what\u2019s happened to hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of U.S. soldiers, once President Trump announced \u2014 along with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu \u2014 this unprovoked war on Iran. It\u2019s critical to understand that a <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/2026\/04\/01\/iran-war-us-casualty-numbers-trump-hegseth\/\" >number of U.S. service members have died<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>You know how <a href=\"https:\/\/www.huffpost.com\/entry\/donald-trump-lashes-out-reporter_n_69b79873e4b0fa6e898047da\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">reporters<\/a> were <a href=\"https:\/\/newrepublic.com\/post\/207794\/donald-trump-key-questions-troops-iran\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">castigated<\/a> when they raised the service members. It is really important to question, because we\u2019re talking about lives \u2014 life and death \u2014 whether we go to war, which is why it\u2019s critical for Congress to debate this issue and determine whether the U.S. should go to war. We have to be able to discuss these issues, and the media is the place to do it. I see the media as a huge kitchen table that stretches across the globe that we all sit around and debate and discuss the most important issues of the day: war and peace, life and death. Anything less than that is a disservice to the service men and women of this country. Anything less than that is a disservice to a democratic society.<\/p>\n<figure class=\"wp-block-pullquote\">\n<blockquote><p><em><strong>\u201cI see the media as a huge kitchen table that stretches across the globe that we all sit around and debate and discuss the most important issues of the day.\u201d<\/strong><\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<\/figure>\n<p><strong>AL:<\/strong> This is a good segue to touch on the title of the documentary, which is \u201cSteal This Story, Please!\u201d which speaks to the idea that you want mainstream media to start covering the topics that you cover that they might ordinarily ignore or gloss over. But that even when they do, they don\u2019t always connect the dots to what\u2019s driving these issues or to these questions that you\u2019re asking about accountability. The premise that that this was an <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/2026\/03\/03\/rubio-trump-iran-israel-war\/\" >unprovoked war<\/a> is lost in a lot of this coverage, even if some of it has been relatively critical.<\/p>\n<p>So I just wonder if you could speak to how it\u2019s beneficial for all of us when the media does pay attention to these issues. But what difference does it make if they\u2019re not connecting it to these broader questions of accountability and power?<\/p>\n<p><strong>AG:<\/strong> Tia Lessin and Carl Deal, the filmmakers who made \u201cSteal This Story, Please!\u201d chose that. It\u2019s our motto at \u201cDemocracy Now!\u201d We have a few mottos. To be the exception to the rulers. That\u2019s our job in the press. The other is to go to where the silence is. Because the fact of the matter is, it\u2019s not really silent there. People are organizing, they\u2019re raucous, they\u2019re rowdy, but it doesn\u2019t hit the corporate media radar screen.<\/p>\n<p>When it comes to stealing this story, <em>please<\/em> \u2014 because we are forever polite \u2014 covering these stories like as they covered in the film, the standoff at Standing Rock. We should not have been the only journalist there covering when hundreds of Indigenous people, Native Americans, First Nations people from Canada, Indigenous people from Latin America, and their non-native allies started taking on the Dakota Access Pipeline.<\/p>\n<p>We were there at one moment when they saw bulldozers excavating their burial grounds. And they were concerned about the pipeline going under the Missouri River, the longest river in North America, endangering the lives of millions of people. That\u2019s what they were concerned about.<\/p>\n<p>They saw these bulldozers. They went on the property, and the DAPL \u2014 Dakota Access Pipeline \u2014 guards unleashed dogs on the protesters. They were biting them. They called themselves water protectors, not protesters. We captured that dog with its mouth and nose covered in Native blood, and we <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=cxcYNM9o6go\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">posted online<\/a> what was taking place.\u00a0Within 24 hours, 14 million views.<\/p>\n<p>Any corporate executive, so many. When I go into the network studios, \u2014 not only Fox; but MSNBC at the time, now MSNow; CNN \u2014 saying, why don\u2019t you cover climate change more for these decades? The executives say it doesn\u2019t capture enough eyeballs. Well, I think any of these executives would drool for that kind of response. Fourteen million views.<\/p>\n<figure class=\"wp-block-pullquote has-text-align-right\">\n<blockquote><p><em><strong>\u201cIt\u2019s a failure if it\u2019s an exclusive. \u2026 We want to ensure that these stories get out.\u201d<\/strong><\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<\/figure>\n<p>People really do care. But because we\u2019re the only ones there, all the networks took our video, and I encourage that. Steal this story, please. It\u2019s a failure if it\u2019s an exclusive. We are covering these critical issues of the day, and we want to ensure that these stories get out because independent media is essential to the functioning of a democratic society.<\/p>\n<p><strong>AL:<\/strong> Tia, I want to bring you in here, too. You opened the film with Amy holding a microphone, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.democracynow.org\/2018\/12\/12\/trumps_energy_adviser_runs_away_when\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">following a Trump official, persistently asking him questions<\/a> about why he\u2019s at a climate conference when Trump has called climate change a <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/2020\/11\/04\/paris-agreement-withdrawal\/\" >hoax<\/a>, among other environmental policy questions.<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Clip of film]<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>AG [in film]:<\/strong> Hi, I\u2019m Amy Goodman from \u201cDemocracy Now!\u201d Can you tell \u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>P. Wells Griffith III, then-Trump climate adviser:<\/strong> I\u2019ve gotta go to another meeting.<\/p>\n<p><strong>AG [in film]:<\/strong> Can you tell us what you think about President Trump saying climate change is a hoax? You could answer the question, are you not speaking to the press here?<\/p>\n<p><strong>PWG:<\/strong> Excuse \u2014 I\u2019m sorry, I\u2019m running late for a meeting. Thanks.<\/p>\n<p><strong>AG [in film]:<\/strong> Right, but you weren\u2019t running late when you were just standing there.<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Clip end]<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>AL:<\/strong> Tell us about that scene, and why you chose to open with it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>TL:<\/strong> It was quintessential Amy Goodman there. She was going up and down the stairs, in and out of corridors, following, chasing after the Trump administration\u2019s representative to the conference who would not stop to answer her questions. And she was just doing what a good reporter does, and she was unstoppable.<\/p>\n<figure class=\"wp-block-pullquote has-text-align-right\">\n<blockquote><p><strong><em>\u201cShe\u2019s doing this for us. She is working in the public interest to get these answers from elected officials, from corporate CEOs.\u201d<\/em><\/strong><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<\/figure>\n<p>She understood that her listeners wanted to know these answers, and she was going after them. To me, it just showed everything you need to know about Amy Goodman. And it really, I think, makes the audience root for her because she\u2019s doing this for us. She is working in the public interest to get these answers from elected officials, from corporate CEOs.<\/p>\n<p>We see that throughout the film: She\u2019s often chasing after billionaires and politicians, and oftentimes getting answers that no one else is, to questions that no one else is asking. I will say, we were going to call the film \u201cChasing Amy,\u201d or \u201cAmy Chasing\u201d or \u201cChasing Amy Chasing,\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>AL:<\/strong> I love that. \u201cAmy Chasing \u2013\u2013\u2013.\u201d Fill in the blank. [laughs]<\/p>\n<p><strong>TL:<\/strong> The title was already taken. But I will say that, to go back to your previous question, I think of the words that Amy\u2019s co-host Juan Gonz\u00e1lez said to us when we were talking to him about the coverage of the Iraq War in 2003, or let\u2019s say the invasion of Iraq. And the <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/2023\/03\/29\/iraq-war-atlantic-david-frum\/\" >cheerleading<\/a> that the <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/2023\/03\/30\/new-york-times-iraq-war-error\/\" >commercial media<\/a> did, \u201cDemocracy Now!\u201d\u2019s reporting was pretty unique in raising questions that journalists weren\u2019t asking. They were taking <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/2023\/03\/19\/george-bush-iraq-lies-trump\/\" >Bush\u2019s proclamations<\/a> at face value.<\/p>\n<p>Twenty years later, <a href=\"https:\/\/washingtonmonthly.com\/2013\/03\/20\/mistakes-excuses-and-painful-lessons-from-the-iraq-war\/\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">lots of mea culpas<\/a> on the part of the press, \u201cwe were wrong.\u201d Even people like David Remnick, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.npr.org\/2015\/02\/18\/387229984\/david-remnick-looks-back-on-tough-decisions-as-the-new-yorker-turns-90\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">we\u2019re sorry we were wrong<\/a>. Juan Gonz\u00e1lez put it perfectly when he said, to paraphrase him, it\u2019s not enough to say 20 years later we were wrong. You need to stop the injustice when it\u2019s happening, or at least report on it.<\/p>\n<p>That is something Amy does and Juan does and her team does every single day.<\/p>\n<p><strong>AL:<\/strong> There was a ton of discussion in Trump\u2019s first term about how the media should cover someone like him. And we didn\u2019t see many journalists doing what we saw you doing, which is, and we don\u2019t see that today really, running people down and asking them hard questions. Often I feel like nowadays that\u2019s associated with \u2014 I have images in my head of <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/2025\/12\/31\/nick-shirley-videos-minnesota-somali-day-cares-fraud-claims\/\" >viral videos<\/a> of reporters trying to do gotcha questions, and that\u2019s not the kind of journalism that we\u2019re talking about.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019re talking about finding people in power and asking them hard questions. So I\u2019m wondering if you could talk a little bit about what <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/2024\/05\/25\/media-trump-danger-democracy\/\" >mistakes<\/a> you think journalists made in covering Trump in his first term, and whether you think that we\u2019ve learned anything from that in this second term?<\/p>\n<p><strong>AG:<\/strong> I think that journalists engage in the what I call \u201caccess of evil\u201d \u2014 trading truth for access \u2014 playing on the old \u201caxis of evil\u201d term. This goes way back, and it\u2019s not just with Republican presidents, it\u2019s with Democratic presidents as well. You don\u2019t ask a tough question because you\u2019re afraid you then won\u2019t be called on again. But I say, then, <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/2025\/12\/13\/hegseth-new-pentagon-press-reporters\/\" >it\u2019s not worth being there at all<\/a>. It\u2019s our job to hold those in power to account.<\/p>\n<figure class=\"wp-block-pullquote has-text-align-right\">\n<blockquote><p><strong><em>Trump is \u201cdoing that to intimidate because there\u2019s a bigger question he doesn\u2019t want asked.\u201d<\/em><\/strong><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<\/figure>\n<p>Right now, the stakes are so high. When President Trump tries to censure AP for not going along with Trump and calling the Gulf of Mexico \u201cthe Gulf of America.\u201d Or his particular attack on women journalists, and particularly women of color, is grotesque. Every single time, the entire press corps should walk out, or object when he calls on the next person, when he says \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.theguardian.com\/us-news\/2025\/nov\/18\/trump-calls-reporter-piggy-bloomberg\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">Quiet, piggy<\/a>\u201d or talking about the \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.nbcnews.com\/politics\/donald-trump\/trump-insults-another-female-reporter-time-looks-rcna246058\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">ugly<\/a>\u201d reporter. It\u2019s critical reporters stand together. He\u2019s doing that to intimidate because there\u2019s a bigger question he doesn\u2019t want asked, whether it\u2019s about the <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/2025\/11\/16\/trump-jeffrey-epstein-emails-shutdown\/\" >Epstein files<\/a> or grifting.<\/p>\n<p>The amount of money his family is making, especially now during the second term, we\u2019re talking conservatively about <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/2025\/08\/09\/trump-crypto-billionaire-accountable\/\" >billions<\/a> of dollars. <a href=\"https:\/\/www.wsj.com\/politics\/trump-family-business-visualized-6d132c71\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">The Wall Street Journal<\/a> has done great reporting on this; <a href=\"https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/interactive\/2025\/12\/31\/us\/trump-deals-policy-conflicts-web.html\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">the New York Times<\/a> has done great reporting on this. \u201cDemocracy Now!,\u201d I always say we prevent stories from being \u201cpriv-ished.\u201d The word is published and maybe a story is published, but often it\u2019s behind the refrigerator ads or it just doesn\u2019t get a lot of attention in print, and to broadcast it is really important. Raising these issues continually.<\/p>\n<p>Trump is a master of media manipulation. He <a href=\"https:\/\/www.politico.com\/news\/2026\/03\/04\/donald-trump-media-lawsuits-00812525\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">sues<\/a> the media. He <a href=\"https:\/\/www.npr.org\/2025\/07\/24\/nx-s1-5477530\/paramount-cbs-skydance-sale-fcc-approves\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">sued \u201c60 Minutes\u201d<\/a> for editing a Kamala Harris interview. We all do interviews for an hour, then cut it down to 10 minutes. It\u2019s our job. Unfortunately, we don\u2019t have limitless time.<\/p>\n<p>So of course in that lawsuit, I think \u201c60 Minutes\u201d and CBS would\u2019ve won, but their owners were engaged in trying to merge two corporations, <a href=\"https:\/\/apnews.com\/article\/paramount-skydance-media-cbs-trump-merger-a030c4f2c1903ed0e7f927782a64fcc0\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">Paramount and Skydance<\/a>, and it wasn\u2019t worth it to them to go through this exercise that would antagonize President Trump. So they essentially paid him off. They say the money goes to the Trump library. What was it? $15, $16 million. But what they get in return is something like a $6 billion, $7 billion merger approval.<\/p>\n<p>ABC\u2019s George Stephanopoulos saying that President Trump was found civilly liable for rape. This was in the case of E. Jean Carroll, who President Trump had a trial and was found guilty of sexual assault. The judge in the case said in common parlance, that would be rape. I think <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/2024\/12\/17\/abc-news-trump-lawsuit-settlement\/\" >George Stephanopoulos and ABC<\/a> would\u2019ve won. But again, their corporate owners wanted a larger corporate merger \u2014 I think it was between <a href=\"https:\/\/www.hollywoodreporter.com\/business\/business-news\/nexstar-tegna-local-tv-megamerger-1236541109\/\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">Nexstar and Tegna<\/a> \u2014 and it was worth billions of dollars.<\/p>\n<p>So paying $15, $16 million to the so-called <a href=\"https:\/\/www.npr.org\/2024\/12\/16\/nx-s1-5229585\/to-settle-lawsuit-abc-agrees-to-give-15-million-to-trumps-presidential-library\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">Trump library<\/a> was pennies for them.<\/p>\n<p>Now, this is extremely serious, especially for less financially well-off networks; you can\u2019t afford these kinds of lawsuits. So it was a real lesson to everyone, and it\u2019s absolutely critical that they be fought.<\/p>\n<p><strong>AL:<\/strong> Talking about this solidarity, or lack thereof rather, in the White House press corps around setting norms around how to handle an official like Trump. There\u2019s a scene from the documentary I have in mind where you\u2019re in the White House briefing room, and you\u2019re asking tough questions about the U.S. arming and training the Indonesian military that carried out the massacre in East Timor that you were present for.<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Clip from film]<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>AG [in film]:<\/strong> Will President Clinton push for the sale of F-16s to Indonesia when Congress returns in January? Jos\u00e9 Ramos-Horta says it\u2019s like selling weapons to Saddam Hussein.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mike McCurry, White House Press Secretary:<\/strong> That\u2019s not the view of the United States government. We make arms transfers of that nature when they\u2019re in the interest of the United States.<\/p>\n<p><strong>AG: <\/strong>You\u2019re supporting the military dictatorship by doing it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>MM:<\/strong> Well, you\u2019re also advancing U.S. strategic interests in the region.<\/p>\n<p><strong>[Clip ends]<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>AL:<\/strong> The press secretary sort of makes a joke at your expense, and you see the rest of the reporters start laughing with him. What was that experience like being surrounded by that press corps? Did you ever question your approach? How was that for you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>AG:<\/strong> This was about the 1991 massacre, which <a href=\"https:\/\/www.democracynow.org\/2005\/12\/7\/thirty_years_after_the_indonesian_invasion\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">Indonesian soldiers armed by the United States<\/a> with M-16s. Indonesia invaded East Timor December of 1975, and they would go on to occupy East Timor for two decades. They killed off a third of the population.<\/p>\n<p>My colleague, journalist <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/staff\/allan-nairn\/\" >Allan Nairn<\/a>, and I survived a massacre on November 12, 1991, which the Indonesian soldiers opened fire on innocent Timorese civilians. They killed over 270 of them. They beat us to the ground. They fractured Allan\u2019s skull. They put the guns to our heads, U.S. M-16s. And only when we convinced them that we were from the United States \u2014 the same place their weapons were from \u2014 did they pull the guns off our heads, and we were able to get away in a Red Cross Jeep with dozens of Timorese jumping on top of us, on top of the van to flee this killing field. 270 Timorese killed in one day. But ultimately during that time, 1975 to 2002, a third of the population of East Timor was killed.<\/p>\n<p>So when I came back to the United States after the \u201991 massacre, that was President Clinton, and the press spokesperson was Mike McCurry. Congress had decided to cut off military training aid to Indonesia, the fourth most powerful army in the world \u2014 armed, trained and financed by the United States overwhelmingly. They cut off IMET, that\u2019s international military education and training, funding. And the question was President Clinton going to restore it. And I kept asking that question to get an answer, and when I asked it again and said I know about the massacre, I survived that massacre, he ultimately said, \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.presidency.ucsb.edu\/documents\/press-briefing-mike-mccurry-261#:~:text=MCCURRY:%20The%20turnip%20is%20dry.%20(Laughter.)%20Q:,this%20budget%20%2D%2D%20the%20pre%2Dbudget%20submission%20stuff.\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">The turnip is dry<\/a>.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I don\u2019t know if that was a code I was supposed to give to another country. But that\u2019s when all the journalists laughed. Because a lot of times the administration can use peer pressure, but I don\u2019t care about that. What I care about is the answer. And I care that people in this country don\u2019t get health care at the same time that money goes to kill others in another country. So we just persisted.<\/p>\n<p><strong>AL:<\/strong> What have you learned from being that person in the room, particularly surrounded by people who often have that access, but don\u2019t use it to ask tough questions?<\/p>\n<p><strong>AG:<\/strong> You just have to keep going. It\u2019s like talking about the corporate media for 30 years. \u201cDemocracy Now!\u201d has just celebrated its 30th anniversary.<\/p>\n<p><strong>AL: <\/strong>Congratulations.<\/p>\n<p><strong>AG: <\/strong>We had a great time recently at Riverside Church, that amazing place where Dr. Martin Luther King gave his speech against Vietnam in 1967, a year to the day before he was assassinated, against the war in Vietnam. The mainstream media, like Life Magazine said he had done a [disservice] to his cause and his people; that he sounded like he was reading a script from Radio Hanoi because he was against the war in Vietnam, he should stick to civil rights. Even those in his inner circle, some felt that way. But MLK persisted, and he said, no, these issues are connected.\u00a0So in the same way the corporate media goes after him, it\u2019s really important to see and cover these leaders who either their speeches, their messages don\u2019t get heard, or they get misrepresented.<\/p>\n<p>But for 30 years, we\u2019ve been criticizing the corporate media. Today, there are many journalists within the corporate media who might have bristled in the last 30 years at what we said, but now are saying, \u201cYou didn\u2019t say enough.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Look at the Washington Post newsroom. It\u2019s been <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/2026\/02\/07\/washington-post-layoffs-jeff-bezos\/\" >cut by a third<\/a> by a tech billionaire owner Jeff Bezos, who founded Amazon, bought the Washington Post, is trying to curry favor with President Trump, stood behind him with the <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/2025\/01\/24\/podcast-silicon-valley-tech-gilded-age-trump\/\" >other tech billionaires<\/a> when <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/2025\/01\/20\/trump-inauguration-billionaires-oligarchy-wealth-musk-bezos-zuckerberg\/\" >he was inaugurated<\/a>. And now has sliced and diced this newsroom to the horror of not only great journalists at the Washington Post, but to people who live in a democratic society and who do believe, go by that motto of the Washington Post, that \u201cDemocracy dies in darkness.\u201d The U.S. has now attacked Iran, and almost the entire <a href=\"https:\/\/www.al-monitor.com\/originals\/2026\/02\/washington-post-cuts-30-staff-guts-foreign-desk-mideast-team-what-know\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">Middle East division<\/a> of the Washington Post is gone. The <a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/lizziejohnsonnn\/status\/2019083204133609846\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">reporter in Ukraine<\/a>, she gets an email that she\u2019s laid off as she\u2019s covering the war on the front lines.<\/p>\n<p>These are really serious times. It\u2019s critical we continue to sound the alarm and build independent media, a media that\u2019s brought to us by those who are hungry for authentic voices. In the case of \u201cDemocracy Now!,\u201d it\u2019s the listeners, it\u2019s the readers, it\u2019s the viewers. And for 30 years, we have depended on this global audience. Many of whom we reach on the internet at <a href=\"http:\/\/democracynow.org\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">democracynow.org<\/a> and now on social media platforms.<\/p>\n<p>Because we can\u2019t have weapons manufacturers, who provide millions to networks to advertise, determining our coverage of war. We can\u2019t have oil, gas, and coal companies determining our coverage of climate change, or banks and other financial institutions determining how we cover inequality. We need an independent media.<\/p>\n<figure class=\"wp-block-pullquote\">\n<blockquote><p><strong><em>\u201cWe can\u2019t have oil, gas, and coal companies determining our coverage of climate change, or banks and other financial institutions determining how we cover inequality.\u201d<\/em><\/strong><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<\/figure>\n<p><strong>TL:<\/strong> And that very same week that Jeff Bezos lays off how many hundreds of Washington Post reporters, columnists, editors is the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.cnbc.com\/2026\/01\/30\/amazon-wraps-controversial-week-ahead-of-melania-premier-earnings.html\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">same week<\/a> that the <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/2026\/02\/01\/melania-trump-movie-review\/\" >documentary about Melania Trump<\/a> comes out. It came out on Amazon, they put it in the theaters. <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theguardian.com\/us-news\/2026\/feb\/01\/melania-trump-documentary\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">How much did they spend on it?<\/a> $30 million to make it, an additional $45 million to market. Or is it the other way around, I can\u2019t \u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>AG: <\/strong>$40 [million].<\/p>\n<p><strong>TL:<\/strong> Either way, it\u2019s an obscenity. First of all, it\u2019s just a commercial for Melania and her fashion industry. But worse than that, it\u2019s just a bribe to the Trump administration. So the fact that those two things happened at the same time, I think, is just, it\u2019s outrageous.<\/p>\n<p><strong>AL:<\/strong> Amy, you created \u201cDemocracy Now!\u201d at a time when corporations were building these huge monopolies, privatizing news media. For both of you though, can you talk about \u2014 we keep talking about independent media, but I wonder if you could talk about what does that actually mean to you, and what it was like being an independent journalist in that media landscape at the height of all these consolidations?<\/p>\n<p><strong>AG:<\/strong> We\u2019re the same then that we are now, and it is independent. I found at the beginning of my career, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.wbai.org\/\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">WBAI in New York<\/a>, part of the Pacifica Radio Network, which was founded in 1949 in the Bay Area by a man named <a href=\"https:\/\/pacifica.org\/about_history.php\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">Lew Hill<\/a>, who was a war resistor, came out of the detention camps and said, there\u2019s got to be a media outlet that\u2019s not run by corporations that profit from war.<\/p>\n<p>Or as <a href=\"https:\/\/fair.org\/extra\/george-gerbner-1919-2005\/\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">George Gerbner<\/a>, founder of the Cultural Environment Movement, former dean at the Annenberg School for Communication, said, a media not run by corporations that have nothing to tell and everything to sell that are raising our children today.<\/p>\n<p>So we started with this deep belief that independent media serves a democratic society. It has just become increasingly corporatized to the point where many of those within these corporate structures are saying they\u2019re losing their jobs and are saying we can\u2019t sound the alarm loud enough. At this point, a lot of the legacy media is, to say the least, losing its power, <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/2026\/01\/25\/tony-dokoupil-cbs-evening-news\/\" >is diminishing<\/a>. A lot of these newspapers are going by the wayside, and it\u2019s an enormous loss.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019re speaking to you actually on <a href=\"https:\/\/localnewsday.org\/\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">Local News Day<\/a>, a very important day because we have lost so much local news. That\u2019s where everything starts. When you care about what your city council decides or your school board decides, and then you go to a larger level. A lot of our stories \u2014 international, national stories \u2014 start with local news coverage that we read about and find the people who are closest to the story. Not these pundits, who know so little about so much explaining the world to us and getting it so wrong.<\/p>\n<figure class=\"wp-block-pullquote has-text-align-right\">\n<blockquote><p><strong><em>\u201cSocial media platforms are extremely important in challenging the traditional gatekeepers, but they can also be a global rumor mill.\u201d<\/em><\/strong><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<\/figure>\n<p>We need to hear more of that. I don\u2019t know the form, the social media platforms and the kind of journalistic formations that will be, but we have students coming to \u201cDemocracy Now!\u201d every day, classrooms watching the broadcast in the morning, 8 to 9, and talking with them after. And I say there couldn\u2019t be any more noble profession than journalism. I\u2019m not sure the different shapes it will take, but I can just say, \u201cYou should do it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>We need to be fair. We need to be accurate. You\u2019re entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts. It is critical that we understand that the internet is extremely important, and social media platforms are extremely important in challenging the traditional gatekeepers, but they can also be a global rumor mill, and we have to ensure authenticity and truth.<\/p>\n<p><strong>AL:<\/strong> I\u2019m not sure that the average person totally understands the effect that corporatization of media has on the journalism itself. I think a lot of us have been inured to the idea that because Politico Playbook is sponsored by BP, that doesn\u2019t necessarily affect the journalism. But I think that\u2019s \u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>TL:<\/strong> And it\u2019s not only journalism. It is certainly journalism, but it\u2019s not only journalism. I think about the world of documentary filmmaking: The number of platforms and outlets that our work airs on has shrunk in this media consolidation. So that means that not only are there less commissions and less money for making films, but the films that we make, that I make, the political documentaries don\u2019t get funded, particularly by commercial media that is looking for corporate sponsors or is accountable to their corporate boards that are trying to kiss up to Donald Trump.<\/p>\n<p>In this case, I think we\u2019re finding a very narrow market for political films. In our case, we are distributing \u201cSteal This Story, Please!\u201d independently, and we\u2019re excited about doing that. We have seen time and time again on the festival circuit, there is an appetite for political content for films that speak to this moment, for this film about Amy Goodman and \u201cDemocracy Now!\u201d and independent media. And I think a lot of the distributors would have you believe that all that audiences care about are true crime stories and celebrity biopics. We are out to prove them wrong.<\/p>\n<figure class=\"wp-block-pullquote\">\n<blockquote><p><em><strong>\u201cA lot of the distributors would have you believe that all that audiences care about are true crime stories and celebrity biopics. We are out to prove them wrong.\u201d<\/strong><\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<\/figure>\n<p><strong>AL:<\/strong> The film \u201cSteal This Story, Please!\u201d is screening in theaters across the country. Visit <a href=\"https:\/\/stealthisstory.org\/\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">stealthisstory.org <\/a>to find showtimes near you. Amy and Tia, thank you so much for joining me on The Intercept Briefing. It\u2019s been an honor to speak with you both.<\/p>\n<p><strong>AG:<\/strong> Thank you so much.<\/p>\n<p><strong>TL:<\/strong> Really appreciate the time. Thank you so much.<\/p>\n<p><strong>AL:<\/strong> Before we go, we\u2019d love it if you help The Intercept Briefing, win its first Webby Award for best news and politics podcast. I\u2019ve already heard from at least one listener who told us that they voted for us, in addition to my fianc\u00e9. So please vote for us! We\u2019ll add a <a href=\"https:\/\/vote.webbyawards.com\/PublicVoting#\/2026\/podcasts\/shows\/news-politics\"  target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" aria-describedby=\"targetBlankDescription\">link to vote<\/a> in our show notes. We thank you so much for your support.<\/p>\n<p>That does it for this episode. This episode was produced by Laura Flynn. Ben Muessig is our editor-in-chief. Maia Hibbett is our Managing Editor. Chelsey B. Coombs is our social and video producer. Fei Liu is our product and design manager. Nara Shin is our copy editor. Will Stanton mixed our show and legal review by David Bralow.<\/p>\n<p>Slipstream provided our theme music. This show and our reporting at The Intercept do not exist without you. Your donation, no matter the amount makes a real difference. Keep our investigations free and fearless at <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/theintercept.com\/join\" >theintercept.com\/join<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>And if you haven\u2019t already, please subscribe to the Intercept Briefing, wherever you listen to podcasts, and leave us a rating or a review. It helps other listeners to find our reporting. Let us know what you think of this episode, or if you want to send us a general message, email us at podcast@theintercept.com.<\/p>\n<p>Until next time, I\u2019m Akela Lacy.<\/p>\n<p><a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/2026\/04\/14\/amy-goodman-democracy-now-independent-media\/?utm_medium=email&amp;utm_source=The%20Intercept%20Newsletter\" >Go to Original &#8211; theintercept.com<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>14 Apr 2026 &#8211;\u00a0The investigative journalist and \u201cDemocracy Now!\u201d host \u2014 and the subject of a new documentary \u2014 on why independent media is needed now more than ever.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4,"featured_media":315136,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[62],"tags":[2375,3981,3982,2882,1678,234],"class_list":["post-315135","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-media","tag-alternative-media","tag-amy-goodman","tag-democracy-now","tag-engaged-journalism","tag-investigative-journalism","tag-media"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/315135","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/4"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=315135"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/315135\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":315137,"href":"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/315135\/revisions\/315137"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/315136"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=315135"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=315135"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.transcend.org\/tms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=315135"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}